Tuesday, October 6, 2009

A Little Dab (of Precaution) Will Do 'Ya

(And, a brief absence of precaution can do 'ya in...)

The product on the right is Prist fuel additive- mostly for our turbine power friends, although they make a product for avgas too ("Prist Hi-Flash...for aircraft operating in extremely cold climates or in aircraft that are flying in freezing temperature for extended periods of time").

I'm a piston-head guy, and plead indulgence (and solicit correction) regarding this topic, but with the intent of promoting safety, we proceed. There is some suspicion that fuel icing might have been a factor (perhaps a human factor) in a turbine-powered aircraft accident earlier this year.

I had always assumed jet fuel had anti-ice ingredients mixed in "from the refinery", but I have been informed, such is not always the case.

While Prist is not the only brand of fuel additive available, it seems to be what the "Kleenex" brand name is to paper tissues. Prist's home page has a nice history of their fuel additive product (they also make transparancy cleaners).

Of interest to those of us less familiar with the product, "PRIST® Hi-Flash™ Fuel Additive must be injected into a stream of fuel and not “poured” or “splash blended” into a tank." (However, "For fueling from slower flowing fueling systems (ie: remote or hand pumps), or into aircraft requiring slower fueling (ie: helicopters); PRIST HI-FLASH comes in a ‘LO-FLO’ version specifically designed to mix properly under these fueling conditions. PRIST HI-FLASH LO-FLO comes in 8 oz aerosol cans."). The Prist web site has an informative details of handling the additive.

In addition to anti-icing benefits, Prist (and other fuel additives) have
biocidal/antifungal properties to keep your fuel tanks from becoming amusing Petri dishes.

While most turbine airframes have engine oil/fuel heat exchangers which cool the engine lubricating oil, and heat the fuel to prevent jelling -and perhaps ice formation- and do not require fuel additives, it seems it is mandatory for some (from the FAQ section of Prist's web site):

  • Aerospatiale/Mooney - TBM 700
  • Beechcraft Raytheon - Beechjet 400 & Starship’s
  • Bombardier Learjet - 23-24-25-28-29 & 35/36 Series
  • Cessna Citation – Caravan, Corsair/Conquest, Citation I & II
  • Hansa – HFB-320
  • Mitsubishi - MU-2 Series & MU-300 Series
  • Piaggio - Avanti
  • An ever increasing number of Very Light Jets (VLJs)
I would encourage all our turbine flying friends to re-examine their familiarity additives.

For additional general reading on fuel systems:
Jet Fuel Quality: Flying Clean and Dry

Not to leave our piston friends out on the topic of engine intake icing...

The picture of the Piper in a tree was addressed with a helpful email, cautioning the use of carburetor heat to prevent more visits with tree doctors, (and other doctors). As a piston driver, the correspondent's letter had great impact, and we all thank him for his helpful information:


"I am Writing your Blog with a simple message, based on your picture, to use Carburetor Heat with the lycoming engine, as a habit on all landings. Maybe it will save someone an Airplane, or maybe a picture on a Blog.

"I fly out of our local field- It is dry here, were it not for the mountain Range to the west of us, this place would be a desert.

"I know what I am saying will upset many pilots, but I feel it might do some good.

"I have no connection to the manufacturing or inside tales to give, but I have read your Blog, hoping for the best for Eclipse and the future of aviation. I belong to a small flying club with a few piston aircraft. We try to fly the aircraft by the "book". Our Instructor is from the local FBO, and is a very good instructor.

"Three years ago on a nice warm day, like today, a member was up in our Cherokee 235, it had just been refurbished, we were proud of it., and he was flying it by the "book"." APPROACH AND LANDING, 5. carburetor heat -off [unless icing conditions exist ]". It was a warm dry day and we had learned with the lycoming engine to use carb heat, as needed. As he entered the pattern he lost power. Carb heat only made matters worse [as it should], and with the heavy 540 in front, he was on his way down before he had time to do anything but find a road to land on. Our new shoulder harness left him with only a sore shoulder ,but the plane was a total loss.

"A year later our FBO rented out his Cherokee 180, as the Pilot went around the field, He also lost Power, as he came into land, He wasn't able to make the field, and so lined with the road running in front of the airport at Meadowlake Airport. No Carb Heat, as he was about to flare he faced a car coming down the road, and a head on collision, so at the last moment, he turned into the field to avoid hitting the car, and landed in a tree, Your Picture.

"From these experiences we have learned with the lycoming engine, GET IN THE HABIT, ALWAYS USE CARBURETOR HEAT ON LANDING, I hope these story's do some good for someone, and keep someone from landing in a tree.


We certainly are thankful for the inputs, regarding the importance of fuel additives for turbines, and carb heat for Lycomings.


Phil Bell said...

Special thanks to those who shared their concern on the topic of moisture in the fuel and in the air.

Phil Bell said...

Thanks to EclipsePilotOMSIV for the tip about Eclipse Aviation's press/customer/public release today.

It seems a number of very encouraging developments have been effected during the weeks since the sale concluded.

Congratulations to the new team!

"Our staff had grown from 12 to 35 in the month of September".

"The former DayJet airplanes that were stored at the Gainesville facility are currently being prepared for a ferry flight to Chicago or Albuquerque where they will undergo refurbishment,
reconditioning and upgrades."

"On Wednesday September 30th, the FAA reissued and formally presented the Eclipse 500
Type Certificate to Eclipse Aerospace."

"On Wednesday September 30th, EASA announced that the Eclipse 500 Type Certificate has
been reinstated under the Eclipse Aerospace Inc. name and it is in full force and current."

"A new agreement with Jeppesen has been negotiated that will
result in Jeppesen providing the AvioNG navigation database directly to owners."

"Our engineering team is working with the FAA to complete the new Bias-Ply tire
certification so that these tires can be made available to our customers. This activity is in the final coordination with the FAA and we anticipate this approval within the next few weeks."

"We are pleased to announce that on September 30th, we have an agreement with the FAA on a method to restart the quality inspection process required to distribute aircraft parts. Effective today (October 5th), we have implemented the first phase of this parts inspection process and are now shipping parts as quickly as they can be inspected."

"We have the first four complete FIKI/AvioNG 1.5 upgrades scheduled to begin this month in Chicago."

EA Customer Communique 10/05/2009

I admit I found the announcement using the old web site address, which EAI thoughtfully maintains as a portal:

But the new one is:

(or click here for the new EAI website).

Phil Bell said...

It seems like those fuddie duddies at AviationWeek are a bit less, shall we say, enthusistic, about the overall VLJ situation, or at least how it has been presented/represented/misrepresented in the past:

New Report Offers VLJ Reality Check
(Aviation Week, Oct. 5 2009, Benet Wilson).

"...the very light jet (VLJ) has yet to prove that it is anything more than a subcompact business jet, according to Brian Foley, president of Sparta, N.J.-based Brian Foley Associates. "This is in contrast to a time when 'revolutionary' and 'disruptive technology' were industry buzzwords..."

"...VLJs, though intentionally marketed as an entirely new, standalone product category, are actually nothing more than a downward market extension, analogous to business jets getting bigger on the top end of the product continuum, Foley maintained. "We would submit that any claims to there being an 'inventor' of the VLJ are without merit," he added..."

..."One could make the argument that in order to get sufficient funding, startup VLJ companies had to communicate a unique business case to investors - in this example the "creation" of a new, disruptive, game-changing category of aircraft, Foley told BA. "A plethora of marketing channels were consistently used to create this perception until even the general public was intrigued," he explained..."

"...One possible explanation was that high production figures were needed by early business models to ever make money due to improbably low purchase prices, Foley said. "Through marketing, others adopted these high delivery estimates as fact," he observed..."

"...Early on, established manufacturers distanced themselves from the hype and financial instability of some VLJ startups and instead referred to their own VLJ-like products as entry-level jets. "In retrospect, that decision had foresight," Foley says, "since the term VLJ was at times tainted by connotations of unrealistic expectations and even failure. The industry, including VLJ users such as air taxis, would do well to drop hyped words like 'revolutionary' from its vocabulary in order to improve credibility with end users"..."

"...Contrary to what has been said, the industry won't eat its young, but the market and unachievable business plans will"...."

In reading the excellent AviationWeek article, and it's critique of the hype heretofore surrounding the VLJ market, what's refreshing to me, is the lack of, shall we say, "flourish", in EAI's press release- and the sense of directness and credibility it infers. A promising sign of entrepreneurial honesty, for which they are to be congratulated for, as much as their other pleasing accomplishments to date.

(And oh, okay. I don't really think Benet is a fuddie duddie :)

Beedriver said...

On carburetor icing. the Cherokee 235/Dakota is the most Ice prone airplane I have flown. It is the only one I have gotten Carburetor ice in while in cruise at altitude at full power. Apparently it has a small carburetor on a large displacement engine 540 cuin and there is substantial expansion through the carburetor under all circumstances thus the vaporization of the fuel and associated cooling will cause ice even in very dry situations.

ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

The customer communique from EA is very good news and well presented.

I like what I see so far - they seem to be following a logical approach and seem to be making demonstrable progress.

However, someone was suggesting that a ton of mods were already 'underway' when it seems M&M are indicating they are only now preparing to start a series of extensive modifications.

Pricing on the FIKI Avio NG 1.5 mod at $150K is about where I expected it to be (PLUS parts and additional labor if you have the wrong boots) - and suggests that going from an OG plane to an ETT/FIKI/1.5 plane will be a very expensive fix - I figure around $600-750K - and not worth it IMO for an operator.

Also IMO, EA should make it clear that planes not brought to the FIKI/1.5 standard will simply not be supported - and let those planes become spares donors for interchangable/reusable parts if the owner/operator declines to upgrade.

Would be interesting to know which suppliers have elected not to continue - might be a significant issue, might not.

Also would like to see some mention of their plan to extend the service life - this is the key limiting factor in long term value of the fleet along with whether or not EA lasts the first 6 months.

From the outside though, I do actually like what I see and think for now anyways they appear to be on the right track. How refreshing!

Black Tulip said...

Only two more shopping days left... for the Eclipse 500 on eBay. Zero bids at $950,000 now, as one was withdrawn. With all the positive news here is a chance to get in on the 'ground floor'.

bill e. goat said...

Hi BT,
Or something even better !!

Anonymous said...

CWMoR said:
"... which suppliers have elected not to continue ..

Textar (Hampson) and the Fire Suppressant suppliers have both made it clear that they are out. The former is a bit problematic.

There is probably 33 A/C that still require the ETT mod. Third of these are in the DayJet fleet (now in company possession).
ETT mod involves lot of components from Textar: larger fuel tanks, tail bullet, aerodynamic enhanced engine pylons, and plastic fairing

Replacing Textar with a new supplier for thirty sets will be very expensive. But all is not lost.
There is probably enough parts on the factory floor to upgrade most of these planes. It will mean that the 30 A/C on the line will become spare parts.

IMO, this is the reasonable way to do it. I won't be surprised if this is how the DayJet fleet will be upgraded.
If so, then better do the same for the other 20 customers out there.

Besides, it does not make sense to just keep those partially built planes tied up on the assembly line for years just in case production restarts; a remote possibility in my opinion.

If so, then maybe ETT + AvioNG + new boots + FIKI = $350K ? Not cheep, but possible to accept.

CWMoR said:
"... plan to extend the service life..."

It will take a long time and lots of money. But why try to validate the already inherited "certified" design?
Unless restarting production, it does not benefit the company. They better spend their limited resources on tackling other more pressing issues.

It provides no economic value for the current owners and puts whatever little value remaining in their asset at risk. Consider what would happen should fatigue testing comes back with 5K hours service life (won't be surprised at all)
Original customers are happy with their purchase decision. And given the low fleet utilisation rate, it would be at 10 years before any of these aircraft see 5k flying hours anyway.

It may provide some confidence for the second hand (used) market, knowing that potential buyers are not getting "...a POS..." (allegedly per EAC management admittance).
But I think it is too late. This market has already wised up to what EAC (the designer / manufacturer) was all about and essentially walked away from their product.

That said, should production restart, I image that the FAA may want to take the opportunity to push for fatigue testing (similar to class III aircraft).
Otherwise, I would not bet (nor suggest) that the current company would volunteer to take this on. So let it be.

CWMoR said:
"... I do actually like what I see ...."

Agree. You can immediately sense the difference between a more honest approach vs the total BS that was being spread in the past by EAC.
But still, it feels like they are exaggerating a bit. Maybe "...starting to tackle..." rather than ".. underway.." would communicate a more realistic picture of the mammoth task ahead. Wish them the best.

Question: what is the story with the windshield 50 hour mandatory inspection?
Why is that necessary? If found to be scratched, so what?

At $5000 for reapplying, this is expensive (up to $100 per flight hour if customer not careful !!)
So, what will it take to fix this issue permanently? New windshields with more robust electric heaters?

One gets an uneasy feeling thinking what else besides the aerodynamic surfaces, tyres, battery, actuators, windshield ....... are marginally designed.

Side notes:
(1) With regards to the $150K price tag: I understand that the G400W mod costs about $32K (by third party). Does adding FIKI cost that much more?
(2) Company is in the process of doing the inventory of the purchased assets, including computers. Do they know for certain whether they have all the Avio source code? This should be a priority.
(3) Speaking of fatigue testing results: for those who are in the habit of disingenuously comparing apples to oranges, here are some numbers.

julius said...


Side notes:
(1) With regards to the $150K price tag: I understand that the G400W mod costs about $32K (by third party). Does adding FIKI cost that much more?

as far as I understood RiP AVIO NG plus it's current (1.5) and future components need more computer power! Therefore at least two APCs must be replaced!

How many people are with "Eclipse Aerospace"? Does the number 35 include the Chicago maintenance branch (Eclipse Service Network)?

What are the intentions of M&M: Just doing service for 200 fpjs...?


Dave said...

Good luck

RonRoe said...
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RonRoe said...
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julius said...


At _least_ two APC's? Last time I checked, there were only two per airplane.

oh, some fpjs should have three APCs (per plane). Who took the third APCs?

Anyhow if the owners of a/cs with a s/n higher than 100 will be lucky to get this upgrade for about $150K - in 2010 or 2011?

Which fpjs already have the "right boots" etc.?
Did you also check the boots?


Shane Price said...
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Shane Price said...

35 paid employees!??!!

Doing what, exactly?

Sorting out paperwork?

Thinking about a plan that might result in being able to ship, on some forthcoming "Tuesday", a left handed widget to someone who actually needs a right handed gizmo?

Sounds like they're fiddling while Rome burns, to me.

Or, more correctly, wasting time and effort on trivial matters while EAI's small amount of cash burns away.

Come on guys, let's inject a bit of reality into this fairytale:-

Who's selling what and to whom?

How will this lack of activity generate profits?


In short, where's the future?

EAI are in a hole, and need adult supervision, urgently. The first thing they require is someone to take their shovel away, to stop the digging.

Otherwise I suspect we're in danger of a severe case of 'deja vu, all over again'...

PS, The FPJ eBay is still 'no bid', with 36 hours to go...

julius said...


it will still take some time to consolidate the ABQ facilities and the pieces and parts.

Perhaps one will find out that there are quite a lot of parts only needed for the lower s/n fpjs...etc.

MH is looking for a CEO, thus he must show a real positive mental attidue whatever will happen!

Let's see if M&M will get a positive cash flow within the first half year of operations!


Shane Price said...

And another thing....

Jeppsen will now, by agreement, ship updates directly to FPJ owners.

How soon before other, approved, vendors ship direct?

Where is the service revenue for EAI in this? Who's next to reach past our intrepid Chicago/ABQ based adventurers?

Could (or would) P&W do so?

Let's recap:-

1. They're not selling aircraft, but are busy collecting a stock of second hand ones.

2. They're not doing upgrades, but have 35 employees getting ready to thing about it.

3. They're not shipping all the parts people want, due to supplier issues.

4. They're losing control of service.

Someone, please, tell me I'm wrong....


airsafetyman said...


Be quiet. Drink the Cool-Aid.

Shane Price said...


Sorry, forgive me!

You are, of course, correct. I'll reorder Kool Aid in quantity, double my historical dose and see if that has the desired effect.

As in, disconnected those synapses in my brain that link "business" with "profit".


ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

Shane I actually believe you are wrong on this.

There is a massive amount of behind the scenes effort before any parts can be ordered, received, inspected, accepted, and then sent to the customer and it appears from the outside that EA is actually doing that.

You may recall, I said before that nobody was going to see parts or mods right away, no matter what the cheerleaders said, because of the foundational efforts necessary - the Chicago facility can do work, but FAA has made it clear that it does not really like the 337 approach for mods to the EA-500 (I don't really agree with that position but I understand it).

I find the lack of press releases and such to be pretty damn refreshing, and I will admit to being more than a little surprised - but pleasantly so.

Cary Winters is good people, as are some of the other folks from the former NAJ operation - and EA kept a few good nuts from the original Eclipse.

I would be concerned had there been a sudden flurry of parts deliveries and completions announced - that would be SSDD, this is, from outward appearances, something different and far more in line with what I would have been doing were I in charge.

The Jepp data decision is the right one, EA had no value to add, and the absence of data limits the utility of the plane which has a direct impact on valuation. I predict they will aggressively guard against other HW/SW going direct for the reasons you point out.

The loss of the FireEx vendor will be a big deal - possibly bigger than Hampson, as there is no weight or space margin for a more conventional FireEx system to my knowledge - just won't fit and qualifying a new design would be tough. Not sure if EA maintained ownership of the concept either, as there were legal moves in-work before and during the BK - could be a big deal.

The life-limit issue remains the 800lb gorilla in the room though - it is a calendar limit, and planes like Ken and Shari's are 20% through their useful life already. HME is correct that it will be a potentially tough certification sell, and it will take quiet some time and a lot of coin (both in limited supply for EA) to achieve but without it, this plane has zero potential, restarting production or not.

To Julius' point about cash flow positive - I say not until late next year, profitability maybe 6-9 months after that but without inside info that is only an educated guess.

Still, I must say I am pleasantly surprised so far.

RonRoe said...
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RonRoe said...
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ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

Well Ron you know I have been a very outspoken critic, and I am still concerned about the lack of experienced airplane people at the top of EA - but I do actually like what I see from the outside.

Shane asked for someone to tell him if he was wrong in his assertions, and if so why - I did based on my current thoughts, and am sure he will reply, as will others perhaps.

His main point about the need for cashflow and ultimately profitability remains spot on - but since we don't really know how deep EA's pockets are right now, we will have to wait and see if they can push along with what must be a terrifying burn rate (and still small at that, in my mind) until they get to a point where things get better.

But thanks for recognizing my background and experience, it is appreciated.

airsafetyman said...

"the Chicago facility can do work, but FAA has made it clear that it does not really like the 337 approach for mods to the EA-500 (I don't really agree with that position but I understand it)."

Modifications have to be done under a Form 337 in accordance with approved data. The data can be in the body of the Form 337, in the body of an attached Supplemental Type Certificate which has, by definition, already been approved by the FAA, or by reference to an FAA-approved aircraft maintenance manual. If the Chicago office doesn't want to sign off on a 337 where the data is in the body of the form and written up again and again for each airframe, then the relevant question is wheither or not the airplane maintenance manual is still FAA-approved? Either way the FAA is on the hook (to a degree)for the modifications.

ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

ASM, FAA has reportedly expressed concerns about the use of 337's for avionics mods specific to the EA-500, presumably for the integration challenges, and the fact that there are several approaches being used for the Garmin integration.

The 337 is the correct avenue in my opinion, but FAA appears to have a concern specific to the EA_500.

airsafetyman said...

I don't the FAA has a choice. they must either buy off a Form 337 with the individual data specified for that serial-numbered airplane in the body of the Form 337 or they buy off on a Form 337 that has FAA-approved data (maintenance manual or STC) attached. In this case, it would seem to me, Garmin needs to be involved from the start as they have been there, done that, many times.

Shane Price said...
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Shane Price said...

ColdWet, RonRoe,

My business experience is hard earned. That's what 'informs' my central difficulty with EAI.


Nothing's moving, because banks are scared of their own shadow. Some would claim that this is right and proper after the excessive amount of credit offered over the past few years, but that's another blog.

This remains, however, an uncomfortable fact.

So, while the Internet enables our exchanges, and does indeed provide real time access to volumes of data, it does not change what we can all see, in markets around the globe.

Business is at a standstill, credit is not available and, where it has been offered in the past, it is now being squeezed.

And EAI still make NO effort to sell.

De nada. Zip. Nothing....

If anything, they are passing control of potential service revenue (the fastest route to cash) along to third parties.

All I can see is their efforts to INCREASE their own stock by taking over the DayJet aircraft and declaring their intention to upgrade same.

So I ask again.

What are EAI doing about generating sales, right now?

Why are they reducing their potential service revenues?

How does 'upgrading' the DayJet fleet generate cash?

Simple questions, really.

I appreciate that there are good people at EAI.

What I'd like to see is evidence of some 'real world' business activity.

So that the good people can stay working at EAI....


ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

Shane, unless and until they have the paperwork, contracts, suppliers, and parts LEGALLY in hand, they can't really sell anything, that is the bottom line.

Other than the pre-existing inventory they took over, like the tire stock for example, there is precious little they can actually sell.

They are apparently scheduling mods, and have set some pricing - and it seems as if they are looking for validation customers for other more complicated mods, so that they can set pricing for those based on actuals rather than pie-in-the-sky estimates - that is surprisingly intelligent because history at EAC was unachievable estimates for cost and schedule - they are, believe it or not, essentially pursuing the course I would were I in charge.

It is not glamorous for sure, but it is basically the right thing - based on what we are seeing from the outside.

With FAA's reluctance on the use of 337's for EA-500's, owners will really only have a hadnful of choices for other than oil changes and such - and I would expect to see most, if not all of those independents absorbed by/into EA over the next 6-9 months - or risk being effectively regulated out by a 'factory trained and authorized' approach from EA - think of it as an Alexander the Great/Gengis Khan approach (you can join us or join us, the choice is up to you).

Truth is there is precious little to sell at this point (which has always been my objection to pursuing the whole enchilada) and it will take some time for EA to establish the product lines and pricing for both parts and modifications.

As I previously predicted, I suspect that they have only scratched the surface so far in looking at potential issues and challenges that they did not even know existed - real parts and mods are not likely to flow before the end of the year (outside of tires and nuts and bolts).

How deep are the pockets? How long are they prepared/able to go before they see real and dependable cashflow and then profit? That is the $64,000 question, but I think we can all safely bet it will be nowhere near $3B this time.

EclipsePilotOMSIV said...

Oh I don't know Shane maybe the fact that they have had people lining up for FIKI mods and now people are lining up to have that 1.5/FIKI mod done. That generates some cash flow. In addition this has been their intent since day 1 and they are continuing on course. So I am sure they have worked all of this "lack of cash" as you put, in somewhere. They are making positive steps. Say what you want man.

airsafetyman said...

"With FAA's reluctance on the use of 337's for EA-500's, owners will really only have a hadnful of choices for other than oil changes"

Not so. The Chicago FSDO is not the only FSDO; I'm sure several FBO chains with good FAA relations could manage the fleet much better that the newbees at ABQ. And as I said before any major modifications will have to be done with a 337 and signed off by the FAA no matter what.

Shane Price said...
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Shane Price said...


I hope, really, that EAI 'make it'. We all need a bit of good news, from any quarter.


My difficulty with this noble effort continues to be fundamentals. I don't really care what they try to sell, as long as someone is actually doing sales.

Regulations are something that we here in the European Union understand in a way that Americans would never, ever put up with. Part of 'Business 101' here is how to work your way around the complex legislation we've voted for (again...) in Ireland.

- Let's see a T-Shirt sale.

- Offer guide tours of the factory.

- Why not a raffle for flights at an 'airfield near you'.

(Not that I'd partake of the latter myself, but you get my drift)

Something, anything (almost) that was 'proof of life'. Hot dang, I almost miss Vern. He'd inject a bit of spice into the (non existent) marketing at EAI.

Now there's a first!

The 'critic' sued by Vern, promoting Vern...


gadfly said...

Some comments and thoughts concerning the re-birth of the little bird:

In “olden times” it has been recognized that any hi-tech industry, regardless of size, must produce somewhere between $150K, to $200K of product, for each and every employee, from “custodian” to top management. This is simply a “rule of thumb”, but over the years has been fairly accurate. And with these figures in mind, regardless of the liberal thinking, a maximum profit margin is about 10%, in good years.

So, if the new and improved “Eclipse” has 35 employees, you can do the math . . . but to break even, it would seem to me they need to be producing, right here and now, about $7million in annual sales (somewhere around $27K, going out the door, each and every day, rain or shine), to stay afloat. That is not a goal, but present reality, for October, 2009.

Now, I know that the bankruptcy erases all previous debt, etc., etc., but we still have the same governor, who has not as yet been brought up on charges . . . and may get off free. Regardless, his conviction wouldn't change anything on the bottom line of Eclipse.

But it is most difficult to erase an extremely bad history in the minds of the local machine shop owners, etc., who supplied “Eclipse Classic” . . . and let’s say that “Once bitten, twice shy!” still holds true.

On top of that, we have a new president who has sworn to do serious damage to those that provide energy, etc., etc., to the American economy.

From down on the bottom level, we listen to others . . . and most shops that we know are cutting back on business, tired of working for the government . . . and being told that we are selfish, and have to contribute more and more . . . that the purpose of our business is to provide “jobs” and “taxes” . . . and that our attitude has been nothing more than extremely selfish, and we should be punished for even having a business.

Like I said, these are just some observations, from a “bottom feeder”, . . . hearing back from at least a half dozen other local businesses . . . folks that up until recently have done their best to survive, but are simply weary, and have little fight left in the business world.


(It will be most interesting to observe the "new Eclipse crew" and how they make it work . . . !???)

gadfly said...

‘Lest you see the “gadfly” as a pessimist, I’m a complete optimist . . . but not based on anything promised by human minds, nor the present, nor future marketplace. If it were “all there is”, as Peggy Lee once sang, I’d be most discouraged. But I look for a city, not made with hands . . . and like Abraham of old, count myself a pilgrim, a sojourner . . . . “staying for a day”, “passing through the field”, to a promised land seen from afar. And my destination is sure, based on absolute promises!


(In the mean time, we watch the soap opera of events, including the hopeful re-birth of a little overweight [obese] jet aircraft, with limited capabilities, possibilities, and life-span . . . finding a sort of amusement in the potential outcome . . . while often ignoring the truly important events, passing us by at the speed of light in our brief time on earth.)

(Sometime tonight, at 11:30 Universal Time, a rocket will slam into the Moon, raising debris, to be video recorded by a trailing rocket, and transmitted back to earth, before it, too, slams into the Moon, four minutes later . . . or something close to that scenario. Folks with a “10 inch” telescope, so I’m told, can observe this event . . . demonstrating that there may be water on the Moon. It sounds like an opportunity to purchase real estate, much like we had in Albuquerque, back in the early “seventies” out past “Volcano Cliffs”, and what we now know as “Rio Rancho”. My advice is to get in your bid early . . . and make a fortune. Intel built a factory out there . . . and if you can put up with the wind blown sand, you may find this the ideal spot for your future home . . . and sell it to someone from New York, in about another twenty years or so.)

gadfly said...

How stupid of me . . . the rocket is to impact on “Crater Cabeus” . . . you can’t miss it, ‘just a little southwest of Moretus, and a little southeast of Casatus . . . slightly north or the Moon’s “south pole”. If it were New Mexico, you’d find it a little south of Socorro near White Sands along I-25. Does that help?

And all those radio telescopes, the “VLA”, would have a front row seat. That area looks like the moon . . . Magdelena, etc., . . . Now you get the picture . . . I hope! There’s all those friendly spots . . . “Snake Hill”, “Datil”, “Horse Springs”, "Cruzville", “Catron” (sounds like Katrin), "Reserve", . . . beautiful land, to some of us (a couple weeks ago, one of my grand-daughters, age 12, shot a "4x4" buck down there, her first . . . probably few deer on the moon, though).

You’d be hard put to tell the difference between this area and the “moon” . . . but the population is quite similar, plus or minus one person per two square miles. And some of us would find it most beautiful!


(You keep watch . . . I'll read about it tomorrow on "Astronomy Picture of the Day".)

Dave said...

I'm about to get semi-political, but as soon as I read the news I thought of Vern Raburn and the Collier Trophy. What made me think of Vern was news that Obama got awarded the Nobel Peace Prize - not for anything he had done in the past, but because of what he's supposed to do in the future. Both the Collier and Nobel are meant to go for actual accomplishments that have been achieved rather than future expectations. It turns out that the Nobel Peace Prize - unlike other Nobel prizes - is political where a group of Norwegian politicians decides who gets it. Traditionally the Peace Prize has gone for what someone has actually done, but by awarding it this way, it can undermine the Nobel awards as a whole if the awards are not seen as based on actual accomplishments and are given to make political statements. With other Nobel awards it takes a lot of work and a long period of time before before they are awarded - they aren't awarded to up-and-coming scientists because there is a belief that they will eventually accomplish something sometime in the future. Maybe Obama will eventually earn his Nobel Peace Prize, but I think this can be damaging for the credibility the organization just as it was damaging for the credibility of the Collier with Eclipse. If there's an actual accomplishment, give the awards then. I don't see what the hurry is as the awarding organizations have everything to lose and nothing to gain by awarding something before a qualifying accomplishment has taken place.

Beedriver said...

The problem with 337's is not limited to the Eclipse.

For aircraft like my seabee, which has an oil cooler which is notorious for failing suddenly and dumping all the oil without warning The dificulty getting 337's is a real problem.

The Oil cooler has not been built since 1947 or so thus there is no substitute except used ones with unknown ancestry. It has been virtually impossible to get the use of a modern oil cooler (used on the Saratoga etc) approved.

virtually any simple common modification now, like mounting an antenna, requires a DER to do the engineering in order to be approved. The FAA is incredibly risk adverse, as the old hands that knew what you could do and not compomise safety are gone from the FAA.

The FAA just approved the designated DER program which in principal should help as there will be one or several DER's that are expert in the airplane that the FAA will accept data from. I hope this program will help us keep these old airplanes flying safely.

gadfly said...

Overheard in the computer programing room at NASA:

“Iraq? . . . I thought you said you wanted it to hit a Rock!”


Black Tulip said...


It is shocking that Vern Raburn did not receive the Nobel Peace Prize. But I can understand how Obama edged Raburn out based on Barack's tremendous contribution to whirled peas... er, world peace.

gadfly said...

Dark Blossom

The actual term is "Victualize Whirled Peas!"


(The words escape me, but the Chinese are "Humming" a new tune.)

michal said...

"It turns out that the Nobel Peace Prize - unlike other Nobel prizes - is political where a group of Norwegian politicians decides who gets it."

Indeed the award has been very politicized, it has become an utter joke. May I remind everyone that North Vietnamese Le Duc Tho won one too (with Kissinger).

gadfly said...

For further information, with a minumum of comment:



(Maybe far too much is made of this award, as if those who decide who gets it are some sort of "gods", with wisdom beyond the norm. And for the citizens of the US of A, we'll foot the bill for flying his majesty, over and back, to pick up the award. It would be far less expensive to just give him a "Christmas Bonus", plus a gift certificate for his wife at "Nordstroms", and save the "carbon footprint (whatever that is . . . a gift "under the table" to another Nobel Prize winner), et. al.", and the additional borrowed money from the "Chi-Coms". This is a great weariness! "Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh my!" . . . Dorothy had it so easy!)

gadfly said...

As we approach the weekend, we dance around the issues . . . careful to not offend other bloggers, etc. The bottom line is that this nation is in serious trouble. And before long, it won’t matter much what we think of the little bird, “Eclipse”, nor for that matter, anything else built in the US of A, and “General Aviation”.

In case you haven’t noticed, we have been bought and paid for, by the “Chi-Coms”, and even they are concerned about the “left wing” attitudes of our leaders. Ain’t that somethin’?! When the “left wing” is “right wing” compared to our own leaders, someone needs to wake up and get a grip!

One of my dreams as a kid was to be a missionary in China. ‘Looks like that dream, the final one in my long list of dreams that have come true, will also be realized . . . as China will soon “own us”, and come here. Once upon a time, I set foot in shallow water off the shores of China, when our submarine spent a couple days in Hong Kong Harbor, and some of us went “Scuba” diving, compliments of a British Restaurant Owner . . . but I never made it ashore. (A storm had passed a day or two before, . . . the yellow mud made it almost impossible to see more than a few inches, and only by following the bubbles, could I see to get back to the surface. That was the closest I ever got to Communist China . . . back in 1957.)

We listen to other small businesses . . . and we hear back that the “owners” (similar to ourselves) are simply tired of continuing the fight, to keep our employees, pay the taxes, and accept the constant pummeling, as if we are the enemy.

Recently, we read the tax returns of our president and vice-president, and saw the numbers of contributions to various charities, etc., . . . and about that time, I was going over our own charitable giving, shredding old checks from years gone by, . . . the comparison was not even close, and these “leaders” are now demanding that we give even more. What a farce, and total insult.

This nation is in serious financial trouble . . . and coupled with moral issues, those problems are compounded, many times over.

Well, these are things to chew on, for sure. But the days of old are gone forever . . . as we enter into some hard times ahead. Make no mistake!


(My wife is on a brief trip . . . flew United Airlines, in a little twin jet built in Brazil . . . great plane, and nothing built in the US can compete at present. Yes . . . the aviation industry in the US is in deep trouble. But at least, the Brazilian jet uses GE engines . . . and I think we make some tooling for that engine . . . I’ll need to check that out.)

Shadow said...

There is a major difference in Vern getting the Collier and Obama getting the Peace prize. Vern lobbied HARD (and some say PAID) for the Collier Trophy. Obama had no clue that he was even up for it, let alone that he would the unanimous choice. I love how people are trying to blame Obama for winning the Peace prize -- just shows how mindless some are. That said, I'm of the camp that both awards were given prematurely to Vern and Obama. But you can blame Vern, but not Obama.

And Gad, I hope your obvious dislike (hatred?) of Obama doesn't cloud the fact that the deficit skyrocketed under George W. We didn't get here overnight, and we certainly won't clean up this deficit mess overnight either. This is not all Obama's fault, so please quit acting like it is.

EclipsePilotOMSIV said...


Drink Obama's Kool aid much?
It must not be sitting well with you because you are vomiting up some good ole liberal propaganda.
Enjoy your healthcare, I'll do my best to take care of you but don't get mad at me when i can't cath you because you are too old, or I have too many smokers who are gonna get the procedure because they came to me first.

gadfly said...


No one gets off the hook for the vast increase in uncontrolled spending. Remember that Obama was part of the congress while Bush was failing to veto the nonsense.

But regardless, things have taken a terrible turn, and there is no way for this nation to continue spending money we don't have. And many businessmen are simply "burned out", attempting to keep their businesses alive.


Floating Cloud said...

Dear Gadfly,

We all love the soap opera that is Eclipse. And when it rises its head again everyone gets all kinda excite...me included. Yes, we are all still in that love/hate relationship with Eclipse for whatever reason – personal, business, just plain nosey, want to know, fantasize (where’s Mary), own a plane, can’t help myself got to look...that’s all good news because we care.

“Future Shock” is here and has been here for a long time.

Those of us who grew up in the cold war know future shock has always been hard and difficult and when we take a nose dive towards earth we are not surprised when we come out through the turbulence in one piece again.

Keep spreading hope. Obama did not win the Nobel peace prize at all. And I am not an Obama fan. He’s just one of the few who presents himself as believing in a world of tolerance – hard as that may be, that is what we need to hear. No shut down.

Future Shock is a book written by the sociologist and futurologist Alvin Toffler in 1970. It grew out of an article "The Future as a Way of Life" in Horizon magazine, Summer 1965 issue. Future shock is also a term for a certain psychological state of individuals and entire societies, introduced by Toffler in his book of the same name. Toffler's shortest definition of future shock is a personal perception of "too much change in too short a period of time".

EclipsePilotOMSIV, get a grip.

EclipsePilotOMSIV said...

Well floating cloud I hope you don't need intervention on your heart disease when you are over 65 cause good cardiologists aren't going to be able to help you. The sad part I have seen this in action personally.

I had a Canadian patient about 9 months ago he was here in FL on vacation. He didn't get the travellers insurance. Because what can go wrong on vacation right?

Well something did go wrong. He developed a gall bladder infection and needed to have surgery to have his gall bladder removed. I was called to evaluate his cardiac status before his surgery, no uncommon before surgery due to the fact that cardiac events and strokes can and do happen under anesthesia.

This gentleman had a condition call unstable angina. In which he had cardiac related chest pain while at rest. Meaning he had a very high chance of having a heart attack under the stresses of surgery. He needed to have a coronary catheterization and most likely intervention ie stent placed. This is an expensive procedure and he could not afford it. No surgeon within 100 miles would operate on his gall bladder either and risk him dying on their table.

So this guy has two potentially life threatening conditions on his hands infected gall bladder and significant heart disease.

We then called the Canadian health service to see if we could fly him back there to have the cath and surgery done. What do you think they told us? Sorry can't cath this person because he is over 65 and we just don't do that in our system. The guy was 67. They did however have a surgeon who would operate on him, due to the fact that his gallbladder was an acute problem. So he didn't get the cath but got the surgery. He never made it off the table.

So I apologize for not believing the garbage our government and our president is spewing about "affordable health care for all" because the systems that we think are so great also have fatal flaws. And we are being LIED to about it. Makes me wonder what else we were lied to about. No earmarks? More troops to Afganistan?? Unemployment rates not going over 8%?

I do wonder indeed.

I will say one thing. As a physician I hope I can help as many people as humanly possible, and I will always work to accomplish this goal. But due to the fact I have a target on my back I will do so vigilantly. I put a great deal of time and effort into this and deserved to be treated well. Not cut every which way but loose.

baron95 said...

Shane said...Business is at a standstill, credit is not available and, where it has been offered in the past, it is now being squeezed.

And EAI still make NO effort to sell.


I've been short of time and didn't read the whole blog.....but Shane...for crying out loud...what the heck are you talking about?!!!?

Business/credit/etc is at a standstill???!!! Nothing is at a stand still, everything continues to operate.

GM continues to build cars, GMAC continues to make loans, about 1M new vehicles are being sold every month in the US alone. People are buying homes, refinancing debt, by the hundreds of thousands.

And believe it or not, companies are actually making good money, now that they shed excess capacity. The markets are rallying based on increased earnings. Brazil, China, Australia continue to boom. In the ENTIRE RECESSION period, Australia lost ONLY 50K jobs TOTAL, and now they are growing again.

Back to EAI ...

Make NO EFFORT TO SELL????!!!!????

Did you miss the fact that they are shipping parts and planes are entering the upgrade?

Do you think they are doing that for charity?

That is called sales. Their sales probably went from ZERO in September to maybe $1M or so this week. How is that for a sales hockey stick.

Give it a rest pall.

Yes things will be touch for EAI, just as they are tough for Piper.

But they ARE SELLING and the economy IS WORKING.

Go have a pint - you will feel better and impart more velocity to the Irish economy then typing doom and gloom nonsense.

Congratulations to EAI on a month full of accomplishments.

PlaneTruth said...

Baron, give it up. Shane can't hear you. He's driven by the need to criticize and bash anything Eclipse. The company is working to get thing going and not concentrating and making press releases. Just because they don't send Shane daily updates, doesn't mean that they not not working hard to get everything in order. They are in contact with the FAA. They are in contact with customers. They are in contact with suppliers. They are certainly not in contact with Shane - as it should be.

Shane, go back and sharpen your crayons. You are insignificant.

Floating Cloud said...


Come to find out you are a Physician, that makes your rude comment to me (a while back and removed by the blog administrators all the more perplexing). That did add fuel to my fire whenever I read somthing by you that sounds unreasonably nasty towards others.

I hope your Canadian patient made it. And I will no longer hold a grudge towards you- not that you would care either way.

I am leary as well about anything that our government is doing right now -- especially to the health care system, so we agree.

In the mean time I am hoping for the best for Eclipse Aerospace and the world.

On the other hand, it is actually more fun to be unruly!

EclipsePilotOMSIV said...

He never made it off the OR table= he died in surgery.

airsafetyman said...

"It has been virtually impossible to get the use of a modern oil cooler (used on the Saratoga etc) approved [for the SeeBee]."

Have you tried getting the manufacturer of the Sara oil cooler involved? They might be interested in getting an STC for the installation if enough SeaBee owners are interested.

airtaximan said...

There will always be premo health care for the rich. Even rich Canadians.

There will always be premo jets for the rich.

For those that cannot afford the best standards, there is probably an alternative, in Canada and in the US, for health care.

Same goes for jets.

Understanding and dealing with the limitations and consequential trade off is key.

Thinking there are none, is well, foolish.

Good news for OMSIV is he can probably not suffer one bit under Obamacare, if anything goes wrong for him healthwise - he can pay for the best healthcare money can buy.

Not so perhaps for his financial circumstances if Obamacare puts a dent in his wallet.

Regarding the jet, he was able to make the trades and conclude the cheapest one was right for him...

Not so, I guess, for healthcare?

gadfly said...

It’s always amazing to me when someone brings up someone like “Alvin Tofler”, as if a new planet has been discovered. Tofler thought that things (invented by human intelligence) could be so complicated that the new generation would not be able to understand them. Do you notice a contradiction in the thinking? Maybe I continue to understand and thoroughly learn the “new”, because I was born before 1950 . . . the “cutoff” date in Tofler’s thinking.

But whether flying an aircraft, working to solve the problems of vascular surgery, using my invention of the “VCS” (Vascular Clip System . . . yep, been there too), learning all the systems aboard a submarine, or “hydro-magneto-dynamics” (plasma, gas lasers) . . . or even the political history of nations over the past four thousand years of written history, my impression is not “can’t”, but “won’t”, as in “refusal to learn”, and change behavior based on hard-won lessons of previous generations.

Even as I write, I’m multi-tasking . . . checking out a new “HDTV”, watching a series called “World at War” on the DVD player (I just set up using the component cable inputs), and about three other tasks on the computer. The wife is away for a few days, so I vacuumed, did the laundry, and hung it out on the line . . . and cleaned out some of the fish ponds . . . made the bed with clean sheets, cooked enough rice for the next few days, going over in my mind some things for a certain “email” concerning a “court case” that is over, finished the design for the caption over the entrance to a “Bible Camp” (to be machined from aluminum, by CNC “waterjet”) . . . and somehow I’m to believe that the present problems are because “young people” find learning too complicated. Sorry, but I cannot agree . . . “Future Shock”?

As I watch “World at War” to my right on the new TV, I’m shocked at the path our nation is taking . . . morally, financially, politically . . . history always repeats itself, . . . but “so soon”!

Back in 1952, watching “Victory at Sea” on a tiny Philco TV, confirmed my early dream of serving in the Submarine Service . . . and we clearly saw the enemy, who soon promised to bury us. We did what we could, to prevent that outcome. And we listened in the “Radio Room” on our sub to the “beep” of Sputnik, circling the earth.

Today, it seems that the early threat is about to take place . . . with our own citizens busy with shovels, doing the interment.

The younger generation had better wake up . . . stop looking for excuses and a handout . . . and maybe “learn to multitask” like their grandparents.


KnotMPH said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shadow said...

EclipsePilotOMSIV said "Drink Obama's Kool aid much? It must not be sitting well with you because you are vomiting up some good ole liberal propaganda. Enjoy your healthcare, I'll do my best to take care of you but don't get mad at me when i can't cath you because you are too old, or I have too many smokers who are gonna get the procedure because they came to me first."

WTF?! Where did I mention healthcare? You really need to stop prescribing oxycontin for yourself--it's making you see things that aren't even there.

Shadow said...

EclipsePilotOMSIV said: "This is an expensive procedure and he could not afford it."

How is this any different than a U.S. citizen who doesn't have health insurance and can't afford to pay for the procedures out of pocket? Inability to pay rations health care, too.

EclipsePilotOMSIV said...

Shadow my reference to health care had to do with the fact that Obama is a liar and you buy into his BS.

Those people who can't afford procedures at least have somewhat of a fighting chance in this system they won't in his system.

Thanks for playing though.

julius said...

For me, a German, the opinions about the "Obama's health care system" are quite interesting.
I do not know if he has a written proposal which can be put into law without any changes or if it is just an idea which must be formed.

All major US companies offer some free support for health care - but why? They love(d) Obama (even before he was born) or they do it because it's better to have a healthy work force, or it's a general problem for the work force (some CEOs included)?

Are physicians organized? If they
are organized, what about the clients who are generally ignorant of medical stuff (and costs)?

What are the most out-of-favour political areas in Germany?
Defence - too expensive, what for (at least the military people love you - sometimes).. and health care - too expensive, where are the limits etc. ... (only pressure from all sides!).

BTW: Are there any other "care systems" paid by the tax payer and perhaps other affected groups?...FDIC...


P.S.: Don't ask me about the German system! I pay my part, go twice a year to the dentist (most times only checks), go to the physician (in case of real problems or for immunisation), and do not use pills unless needed for treatment. I think I am a good payer and have no health problems - so far!
Is the system good? I didn't make a tough test (and do not want to perform one)!

airsafetyman said...

Most western European countries pay about 3,000 to 4,000 a year per capita for health care. they cover all their citizens and the level of health care is considered excellent. The US spends about 7,000 to 8,000 per capita per year on health care, 20% of the citizens are not covered at all, and much of the 80% that are covered have weak coverage. In trying to discuss what needs to be done critics always bring up the specter of "socialism", as if having patients and doctors and hospitals ripped off by the insurance companies is preferable.

Shadow said...

EclipsePilotOMSIV, like I said previously: stay off the oxycontin.

ASman,I agree 100% with you.

Beedriver said...

You really need to study what other countries do to truly understand the US situation, where we have the best of health care and the worst third world country health care. and the US is the only industrialized country where there is a very high chance that if you are a middle class American and get a major illness you will be bankrupt and all of the resources you worked very hard all your life to accumulate will be gone.

An example of what you will learn if you delve deeper is; for instance there is not a "Canadian" health care system. there are Thirteen different systems with each providence having it's own plan. Some of the provinces having problems getting everyone taken care of, as has been described, and several are very excellent at taking care of everyone's problems.

the best unbiased source I have read comparing what different countries do and the ramifications of each system is the Book "One Injury, 10 Countries: A Journey in Health Care by T. R. Reid"

A good very short review of the book is found in on the NY times book review


Floating Cloud said...

EclipsePilotOMSIV said "Drink Obama's Kool aid much? It must not be sitting well with you because you are vomiting up some good ole liberal propaganda. Enjoy your healthcare, I'll do my best to take care of you but don't get mad at me when i can't cath you because you are too old, or I have too many smokers who are gonna get the procedure because they came to me first."


That's the comment I was reacting to as particularly nasty by Dr. EA OM SIV. Perhaps we should be more worried about our healthcare practitioners than our healthcare system?

Dr. E

I am truly sorry for the loss of your patient.


You are so damn smart I want to meet you. Just please lighten up a bit. Older folks these days keep proclaiming doom and gloom all the time and that's just plain not healthy or helping!

Dr. E would agree I am sure. Who's gonna pay for all these stressed out people?

EclipsePilotOMSIV said...

You know what? I can call a spade a spade, and that does not mean I am a nasty or bad doc.

I am entitled to my opinion as you are as well, I just don't trust the system at this point. And I am some what jaded to the whole deal. I don't think you will like the level of service you are provided under the "new" health care system be proposed. However there are a few people who will benefit from it. Namely between 12 and 46 million depending on who you ask. Our president is stuck somewhere in the middle claiming 30 million. My biggest problem here is a great deal of people who do have good insurance will be made to suffer. And those 12 to 46 million? They will be better off then they were, but believe me, they will not get the best care there is. The best will be the pts that did not have healthcare and now do, who do not do anything to take care of themselves.

Bring the majority down to make the minority comfortable. That is not the American Dream.

gadfly said...


There is so much I could say in response, but I strip away about ninety percent . . . to say the following.

Had I taken the “lighten up a bit” attitude years ago, an entire string of events would not have taken place . . . and in this “blog”, I don’t feel at liberty to share the story. But suffice it to say, while looking back, I see the value of having faced reality of physical challenges, major surgeries, and problems almost beyond numbering . . .

There is a difference between being “happy”, and having true “joy” in the midst of problems that are anything but “happy”. True joy is a condition that does not depend on being “happy”.

Years ago, I suggested a method of joining blood vessels, and was “shot down” by a neurosurgeon . . . it couldn’t be done, and he had a pile of paperwork to prove it. But over a weekend, I produced the first drawings, and by the following Tuesday, the neurosurgeon and others had signed the disclosure paperwork. Within a short time, the first successful clips and tools were produced in our little shop. (And, since no-one is going to get excited by a surgical system invented by a “knuckle buster back-street machinist”, the names of two neurosurgeons were added to the patents, to help move the thing forward. Even then, the "years long" battle with a major medical company that dominates 70% of the suture market in the free world was almost overwhelming . . . but we won in the end.)

But during that time, I had to face the reality of my own physical condition . . . and went through some serious procedures in my own heart. I could have “lightened up” and ignored my own problems, but by facing reality and allowing the corrections, I was able to continue the project, and today the system has gone on to save many lives, in this country, and world-wide. This is not a “boast”, but just a recognition of events. God could have easily used someone else, but He didn’t.

Yes . . . you’re curious, so here’s a video that runs about ten minutes from the company that now has the current license for the clip system (I hope you’re not put-off by graphic pictures of surgery . . . actually, these are quite “tame”, compared to having been there, done that, as it were):


We could apply the same principles to the Boeing problems . . . ‘just say the problems are not serious . . . lighten up, as it were . . . or face reality, and make the hard decisions to correct the problems, before the plane is in service, and lives are lost.

Eclipse “lightened up”, as it were, . . . ignored serious problems, and now, even under new management, will have a hard fight, if not impossible, to correct serious errors and failures in the original little jet.

There is a place to “lighten up”, but concerning the future of our nation, this is not the time.


Phil Bell said...

I certainly enjoy the discussion (and a civil one at that!!:) about health care- especially the comparison from Julius and others of non-USA systems, and EclipsePilotOMSIV's inputs as a participant from his vantage point.

New headline post is up. (Some of my numbers are based on recollections of previous threads- please comment/correct any inaccuracies- thanks!).